The Duality of Ordinary People: A Conversation with Kiyoshi Kurosawa

2024 was the most productive year of Kiyoshi Kurosawa’s career; last February he presented at the Berlinale Chimeshis long-awaited comeback to the atmospheric horror genre that marked the first phase of his career, as it premieres at the San Sebastian Film Festival in less than two weeks The path of the snakethe French remake of his 1998 film of the same name. And two weeks ago, Kurosawa attended the Venice Film Festival to present his third project of the year, Cloud (also scheduled at TIFF), an intriguing action film that focuses on Ryosuke Yoshii (Masaki Suda), an ordinary man who makes a living by selling goods on the Internet under the pseudonym “Ratel”. His activities and the way he exploits other people will encourage the formation of a group of people who want to take revenge for Yoshii’s actions.

In Venice I sat down with Kurosawa to talk about the influence of the Internet on his cinema, the way in which the anxious state of Japanese society was one of the most important factors Cloud‘s main sources of inspiration, and more.

Omar Franini: What was the starting point of Cloud? Is there a specific incident that made you want to tell this story?

Kiyoshi Kurosawa: Yes, there were a few incidents that I got inspiration from, but that wasn’t the starting point. I just wanted to direct an action film, not a stereotypical one with battleships and stuff, but one that focused on ordinary people. That was my first thought, and then I think I used a few events that I knew about to write the script. To give you an example, in Japan a few years ago there was a story where people met online and planned to murder one person. While I was doing my research on this topic, I also had the impression that people in Japan are pessimistic about the future, especially the younger generation. They worry about it, that causes stress and anxiety, and they find a little relief online by using the internet. I thought it would be interesting to talk about that in the film as well.

BY: From a structural perspective, it’s interesting how you approached the rhythm and the mix of genres in the film, because as you said before, you wanted to direct an action film, but that genre only comes to life in the second half of the film, while the first half is more of a slow-burn thriller. How did you work on the flow of the film?

KK: The main reason for the “slow” pace of the first part is the main characters. They are ordinary people, there is no violence, shootings or stabbings in their daily lives, unlike the mafia, yakuza, police forces or military, who are usually the focus of action movies, whose lives revolve around violence. Therefore, the film is somehow slow and “peaceful” at the beginning, but as the film progresses and the ordinary lives of these people are more and more endangered, it becomes more violent.

BY: Given the entire narrative arc the main character goes through, would you want this peculiar journey into madness to be depicted?

KK: I wouldn’t say there’s any madness in this movie. Sure, some of the “enemy” group might be mad, but that’s because they have their reasons. But I don’t think Yoshii is mad. Like I said before, I wanted to portray an ordinary person as the main character, and I was interested in showing how his perspective and state of mind changes as the story progresses, as his more evil side comes out.

BY: You said that the fearful state of younger people drives them to join these online groups, but in the film we see that it’s not just the younger generations. For example, the boss, Takimoto, has a settled life, but he still joins the group. Were you trying to say something specific about this older generation?

KK: So I put all the generations in the enemy group because I think it’s just a mirror of Japanese society. All the generations, not just the young ones, have this kind of fear in them and they’re desperate about their lives. There’s no difference between the young and old generations, they’re just desperate and have no hope for the future. I can also add that I wanted to put one lady in the enemy group, but I couldn’t think of a good role. I think that was the limit of my imagination, and that’s something I regret making the film.

BY: Speaking of the Internet, this isn’t the first time you’ve used it as a key element in your films. I’m thinking about it Wrist (2001) in particular, a film that was way ahead of its time, where, you know, the Internet was this magical and strange place in most films. So I wanted to ask you how this initial fascination and understanding of the Internet has developed in your films.

KK: Like you said, back then Wrist was released, the Internet was seen as something mystical and magical, and we didn’t know much about it. And because of that, I was able to create fictional stories with mysterious entities or monsters. Today, the Internet is still here and has become an important tool in our daily lives. I don’t think we can categorize the Internet itself as something good or something bad; the way we use it is the biggest problem, and we are fully aware of that. And as a result, Cloud closer to reality than fiction. The online world has recently been used to generate hatred towards other people, and through this platform, hatred will be motivated and multiplied until it reaches a certain point where bad things will happen. Of course, good things can also be done with the internet, and that confirms that it is such an essential tool. The way our societies use it makes the difference.

BY: What can you tell me about the character of the assistant? Is there a symbolism behind this ambiguous figure?

KK: I would define the assistant as a “demon”. He always supports Yoshii and he can help him with everything. And when I say everything, I mean both the good and the bad things you see in the movie. He is the most unrealistic character in this movie, but one of the most essential because it helped me describe the more “evil” side of the main character.

BY: Yoshii is played by the great Masaki Suda, and his performance is one of the film’s strongest assets. What made you choose him as the lead for Cloud?

KK: I’m very grateful to have him in my film because he’s one of the best actors in Japan right now. He’s about 30 years old, and even though he’s young, he carries a huge aura with him and has played some tough characters in his career so far. I think in Cloud He had to play an even more difficult role because of the ambiguous nature of this ordinary person. He struggled a bit at first, but eventually he understood exactly what I wanted from the character and his acting. He gave an extraordinary performance and he conveyed that ambiguity perfectly. That’s why I’m so grateful that I got to work with him.