McPherson on Construction Mafia – “siege raising starts with thugs in KZN

In this interview, Dean Macpherson, chairperson of the Democratic Alliance in KwaZulu-Natal and a minister in South Africa’s government of national unity, discussed the significant challenges facing his department, particularly concerning ongoing corruption and organized crime, often referred to as the “construction mafia.” This syndicate, which has infiltrated government projects across the country, is notorious for extorting money and stalling critical infrastructure developments. Macpherson emphasized the urgency of addressing these issues through transparent investigations and strict law enforcement, pledging swift action and accountability within his department. The minister also highlighted the importance of economic growth and job creation as key priorities, despite the challenges posed by entrenched corruption.

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Highlights from the interview

In an interview with Bronwyn Nielsen, Dean Macpherson, chairperson of the Democratic Alliance in KwaZulu-Natal and a minister in South Africa’s government of national unity, tackled pressing issues in his department, particularly the rampant corruption linked to the “construction mafia.” This syndicate has severely disrupted infrastructure projects by extorting funds and halting progress, posing a significant threat to economic development. Macpherson announced plans for an independent investigation into these issues, specifically mentioning the Telkom Towers project, which, after ten years and a billion rand, remains incomplete. He stressed that the investigation would be swift, with a 60-day deadline, contrasting it with the typically protracted investigations that have failed to yield results.

Macpherson also addressed the challenges of working within a coalition government, acknowledging the complexities but expressing confidence in the collective commitment to economic growth and job creation. He underscored the importance of transparency and accountability, vowing to make the findings of the Telkom Towers investigation public. Despite the daunting task ahead, Macpherson remained optimistic about the potential for the government of national unity to deliver on its promises and steer South Africa towards a more prosperous future.

Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___

00:00:13:22 – 00:00:33:16
Bronwyn Nielsen:
Well, we’ve managed to catch up with the Minister of Public Works and Infrastructure, Dean Macpherson. We’re chatting about the construction mafia and whether KwaZulu-Natal is safe or not. In a recent interview, Minister Macpherson, you said, “No, it is not safe.” Can you elaborate on that statement?

00:00:33:18 – 00:01:00:03
Dean Macpherson:
Sure, Bronwyn, and thanks for having me today. You know, KwaZulu-Natal, as a province, unfortunately, has a history of violence that is rooted in the political discourse of our province and our country. And that, unfortunately, seems to have transcended into the construction space now, where we have what we would call the construction mafia bringing projects to a stop.

00:01:00:05 – 00:01:30:16
Dean Macpherson:
They use extortion, violence, intimidation, and all sorts of tactics to effectively extort money from construction companies in order to further their own interests. So it’s incredibly destabilizing for our province and also for the investment climate that we need to create because investors don’t want to put their money into projects that are going to be delayed or canceled.

00:01:30:18 – 00:01:51:00
Dean Macpherson:
And ultimately, it’s our communities that suffer because infrastructure projects aren’t being rolled out. So it’s not something that we take lightly, but we do want to confront it head-on. I’ve said that there’s no room for negotiation; there’s no room for talks. We just need to get on with the job of building infrastructure across South Africa.

00:01:51:02 – 00:01:52:17
Dean Macpherson:
And that’s what we intend to do.

00:01:52:19 – 00:02:13:00
Bronwyn Nielsen:
When you do tackle it head-on, as you say, you are perhaps in the firing line when it comes to death threats and the like. This has been experienced by members within your team. Can you again talk us through the severity of the situation and how seriously you take threats of this nature?

00:02:13:02 – 00:02:35:22
Dean Macpherson:
Well, of course. I mean, any threats made against myself or any other politician, as they have already been done with the Ministry of Public Works and Infrastructure, are taken seriously by the South African Police Service. But you know, what we can’t do is go and hide in a corner just because they’re making these threats.

00:02:36:00 – 00:02:57:13
Dean Macpherson:
We need to ensure that law enforcement meets these people head-on. And that’s why I’ve said there’s no negotiating because the only negotiating that we should be doing is the length of prison sentences that they should be serving for perpetrating crimes against the state because that’s actually what it is. This is state money; these are state projects.

00:02:57:15 – 00:03:19:20
Dean Macpherson:
And we are being held hostage by a bunch of thugs and thieves. So, we’re very clear on what needs to take place. And I think, in some instances, we’ve started to see law enforcement make their move in opposition to these people. But let’s make no mistake, Bronwyn, these are not just local community members.

00:03:19:22 – 00:03:46:10
Dean Macpherson:
They are highly organized, highly sophisticated, with very big guns. And they have intelligence. So, it does suggest to me that these people have access to politicians, they have access to political parties, and we need to act without fear or favor and make sure that we don’t just get the lowly person who is stopping the construction, but also who is his boss.

00:03:46:12 – 00:03:48:10
Dean Macpherson:
And where the orders are coming from.

00:03:48:15 – 00:04:19:22
Bronwyn Nielsen:
And obviously, this has been going on for a very, very long time, so it runs really deep. And if you look at the structure within the government, and specifically your department, you have personnel that previously occupied positions that would have been privy to the construction mafia in their prior roles. Can you perhaps elaborate on how you’re cleaning up your department, so to speak?

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00:04:20:00 – 00:04:53:22
Dean Macpherson:
Absolutely. And I’ve been upfront that not everyone in the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure is a saint or benevolent. There are elements within the department that I believe to be problematic. But there are also very good people, and they’re very committed to ensuring that we do clean up this department. And so, I’ve simply said that if that’s the approach you take, you have a friend in me.

00:04:54:00 – 00:05:16:14
Dean Macpherson:
If you want to be hostile to the vision that we have and the direction and the pace in which we are moving, then you’re going to be on the wrong end of that. So we will, in time, be instituting a skills audit amongst our senior staff. And we must make sure: Are they fit for purpose? Did they get that job with the right qualities and qualifications? Unfortunately, I’ve already had serious allegations, and I take them seriously, of jobs being sold, positions being manipulated for certain people, and that’s just not going to be tolerated.

00:05:16:16 – 00:05:43:05
Dean Macpherson:
Because at the end of the day, we have to be a department that delivers. And that’s why, about a week or two weeks ago, I went to Telkom Towers, which is a project that the government has spent more than a billion rand on.

00:05:43:07 – 00:06:06:18
Dean Macpherson:
And no one could explain to me why it still lacks oversight. So, we’re going to be launching an independent investigation. It’s going to get to the bottom of why that has taken place. It’s so bad, Bronwyn, that after ten years and a billion rand later, they didn’t even take the Telkom sign down. It’s still there. So, it just shows a real lack of duty of care.

00:06:06:20 – 00:06:19:00
Dean Macpherson:
We’re going to get to the bottom of that. We’re going to find out which officials were responsible for that, and they’re going to advise us on what to do with that building going forward.

00:06:19:00 – 00:06:44:12
Bronwyn Nielsen:
In terms of launching an investigation, many will be thinking that’s going to take so long, as we’ve seen investigations just getting kicked down the road. Have you got strict timelines? And when will you be able to come back and say, whether it is the Telkom project or other elements within your department, that here is a strict line in the sand from a timing perspective?

00:06:44:17 – 00:07:06:21
Dean Macpherson:
Bronwyn, I’ve been very clear from day one that this department is going to be transparent so that we build trust in order to deliver services. The terms of reference for the Telkom Towers investigation are 60 days. It’s not going to be 60 months or six years. It’s going to be short and sharp, and we’re going to get to the bottom of it quickly.

00:07:06:21 – 00:07:30:12
Dean Macpherson:
Because you’re right, we can’t have perpetual investigations that don’t allow us to learn what went wrong, tighten up what needs to be done, and how to move forward. There are obviously other investigations that naturally take a long time, like the one where we found that 300 million rand has been stolen from our department over ten years.

00:07:30:14 – 00:07:53:09
Dean Macpherson:
You can’t get to the bottom of something like that in a few short months when there’s ten years’ worth of evidence to sift through. But I want us to be transparent. That’s why I often go to the public and say, this is where we are, these are the problems we face, but this is how we’re going to deal with it. Public Works has become, you know, the joke around the dinner table.

00:07:53:11 – 00:08:12:17
Dean Macpherson:
I want us to be a department that South Africa is proud of, that we are delivering on our mandate, that we are using public assets for public good, and that we’re turning this country into Construction SA. That’s the kind of pride that I want our staff, my staff, to have as we move forward.

00:08:12:19 – 00:08:25:13
Bronwyn Nielsen:
You’re obviously also reliant on an ecosystem. And yeah, one would perhaps ask you, do you trust the law enforcement agencies that you are obviously initiating the investigations with?

00:08:25:19 – 00:08:49:23
Dean Macpherson:
So, I have a very good internal department for corporate governance and risk. They’re really good people. But we’re also going to be bringing in outside bodies to do these investigations because the reality is, with Telkom Towers as an example, I can’t ask the department to investigate itself—that wouldn’t be logical.

00:08:49:23 – 00:09:13:19
Dean Macpherson:
So, we will give it to an independent investigation firm that will actually be able to act independently, will not be able to be swayed one way or another, and then will be able to produce credible findings and suggestions going forward. I know it’s wrong, but it’s now time that we find out who’s responsible for that and what we can do going forward.

00:09:13:19 – 00:09:27:22
Dean Macpherson:
Do we sell the building? Do we continue to renovate it? These are the kinds of questions that I think independent people need to give us answers to so that we’re not stuck in an echo chamber that allows us to keep making the same mistakes.

00:09:28:00 – 00:09:39:20
Bronwyn Nielsen:
Now, the construction mafia is not isolated to KwaZulu-Natal. It’s also prevalent in the Western Cape. Are you initiating the same investigations in that territory?

00:09:40:00 – 00:10:04:08
Dean Macpherson:
Well, I’m supporting the work that the Mayor of Cape Town, Geordin Hill-Lewis, is doing, and he’s come out very strongly to oppose these groups. But he’s also putting money where his mouth is, and he has made additional funding available for law enforcement. He’s made additional money available for tip-offs and information that leads to the arrests of people.

00:10:04:08 – 00:10:36:12
Dean Macpherson:
And that is yielding results. And I think that’s the kind of space we need to move into. But I think the thing that South Africa needs to come around and agree on is that these are not local community members. These are very organized, very connected, and very well-funded individuals that are criminal syndicates. And I think that if we can change the perception and ensure that they are treated as enemies of the state, because what person gets away with undermining the state?

00:10:36:14 – 00:10:59:12
Dean Macpherson:
No matter what your views are on the state, holding it hostage, holding it to ransom, and then getting treated like any other criminal—that just shouldn’t happen. So, you need to treat them as enemies of the state. And then they must be sentenced as enemies of the state. And that’s why I appreciate the work that the mayor in Cape Town has done.

00:10:59:13 – 00:11:10:08
Dean Macpherson:
Because there are now people behind bars who have worked to undermine city-led projects. And that’s the kind of approach we must be taking nationally.

00:11:10:13 – 00:11:27:15
Bronwyn Nielsen:
You’ve actually beaten me to my next question, which was: what is going to happen to individuals when they are found guilty? Are we heading for jail sentences? And will the public be informed in terms of accountability, with the guilty being named and shamed?

00:11:27:17 – 00:11:47:03
Dean Macpherson:
Well, the good news is that when you go to court, you are able to be named once you are charged. And I said the only thing we’re going to negotiate is over prison sentences—whether you’re going to get ten years or 20 years. That’s the negotiation that we’re going to get involved in.

00:11:47:06 – 00:12:16:15
Dean Macpherson:
We’re going to make submissions to the court, but we cannot allow people to just get suspended sentences for crimes against the state. We have billions of rands tied up and locked up in projects that we just cannot move forward on because these guys are holding us hostage. But, you know, we’re also going to have to call on law enforcement, particularly the Minister of Police, to ensure that his officers secure these sites.

00:12:16:15 – 00:12:48:19
Dean Macpherson:
We obviously know that it can’t be done in the way we would like, but resources have to be made available. You recall, Bronwyn, that the President dispatched the SANDF to guard power stations across the country to stop vandalism and sabotage. It doesn’t happen anymore. So that’s the kind of approach and cooperation within the government that we need—if we agree that these are crimes against the state, then we must act accordingly.

00:12:48:19 – 00:13:04:01
Bronwyn Nielsen:
So it goes back to my earlier question as to whether you actually trust the law enforcement agencies. And I know that’s not an easy question to put to you when you’re trying to hold this ecosystem together, but what about all the questions around the integrity of the police in KwaZulu-Natal?

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00:13:04:06 – 00:13:23:04
Dean Macpherson:
Well, look, let me answer it this way, Bronwyn. There are good and bad people in every organization, and the same can be said about the police. I know a lot of good police officers and a lot of good army officers. They love their country and they love the work that they do, but there are rogue elements in both.

00:13:23:05 – 00:13:52:18
Dean Macpherson:
We can’t say that’s not true. I think it was yesterday—I can’t quite recall—but there was a police officer who was actually killed in an exchange of gunfire with other police officers because he was, on his days off, moonlighting as a criminal. So the answer is clear that there are bad elements, but we have to work with what we have.

00:13:52:20 – 00:14:06:07
Dean Macpherson:
And that is obviously the police and the SANDF, and we’ve got to work together to ensure that we secure our projects. And where police officers are found connected to these rings, they must also go to jail.

00:14:06:07 – 00:14:17:09
Bronwyn Nielsen:
As the Chairperson for the Democratic Alliance in KwaZulu-Natal, what is your message to all of those living in KwaZulu-Natal amidst this disarray?

00:14:17:11 – 00:14:42:16
Dean Macpherson:
Well, all I can say is that the reason we went into the government of national unity and the government of provincial unity, which I was involved in setting up, is because we want to change the way things are being done. And we know that having a collective effort between the DA, other political parties, and both national and provincial government, we can start to put our differences aside and put people first.

00:14:42:18 – 00:15:10:00
Dean Macpherson:
For far too long it’s been politicians first, and people a distant second. And I think that’s been our goal—to use the positions we have now in government to ratchet up pressure on these thugs, but also to ensure that we are using infrastructure projects to move the dial on economic growth and job creation, because that’s what it’s about.

00:15:10:00 – 00:15:28:08
Dean Macpherson:
At the end of the day, Bronwyn, we’ve got to get this economy moving. We’ve got to create jobs for people that give them dignity in their own homes. And if anyone is going to try and stop that, they are then going to become an enemy of us. And I’m very clear about my call to the department and to our country.

00:15:28:08 – 00:15:46:22
Dean Macpherson:
And the President backs it—to turn this country into a construction site, because infrastructure-led economic growth is one of the best forms of growth that we could hope for. So that is what I obsess about every day, that’s what my team obsesses about, and that’s what we want to deliver to the people of KwaZulu-Natal and South Africa.

00:15:47:00 – 00:16:09:02
Bronwyn Nielsen:
It’s a tall order and a big task ahead of you. I was chatting to Alec Hogg, the editor of BizNews, in our editorial meeting this morning, and I informed him about our interview. He was saying, “If you can, please put to Minister Macpherson how he’s going to do this when so many others have made the same promises and have failed.”

00:16:09:04 – 00:16:24:00
Bronwyn Nielsen:
How are you going to ensure, in a government of national unity where you are dealing not only with members within your own party, that you can deliver on these promises?

00:16:24:02 – 00:16:56:12
Dean Macpherson:
Well, that’s what the government of national unity will live or die on—whether it moves the needle on economic growth and jobs. It is a heavy responsibility that we have to bear, but I have been greatly encouraged by the cabinet meetings I’ve attended, meetings with the President, and meetings with officials. By and large, people are committed to this project because the alternative, an MK/EFF government, would be totally disastrous for South Africa.

All the partners in the GNU are going to disagree on some issues—absolutely. Will it get noisy from time to time? Of course it will, because we’re also political parties that are now in a system of government. But I am of the view, having the access that I do now, that political parties are committed to this.

00:16:56:14 – 00:17:24:18
Dean Macpherson:
I think it’s going to last five years. And if we do that, and if we focus religiously on economic growth and creating jobs—and that is the thing that binds all of the policies together—I think we’re onto something that can take South Africa in a new direction. And that’s certainly our commitment.

00:17:24:20 – 00:17:43:21
Bronwyn Nielsen:
When I look at your deputy minister, Sihle Zikalala, who was the former Premier of KZN, what does he say to you about the state of KwaZulu-Natal that you have inherited under his watch?

00:17:43:23 – 00:18:18:21
Dean Macpherson:
Look, I’m not here to pass judgment on what people did or didn’t do. The President has appointed us, respectively, to our positions. It’s up to us to work together to put the interests of the country first, no matter what our personal views might be of each other or where we come from.

And that goes for the entire government. We have a common rallying position, which is around the soon-to-be-launched Medium-Term Development Framework. Our job is to simply go and execute that, to make sure that we get cranes in the sky and shovels into the ground. I know that in a collaborative way, we can certainly achieve that.

00:18:41:12 – 00:18:45:03
Bronwyn Nielsen:
Do you have a good working relationship with the deputy minister?

00:18:45:05 – 00:19:05:12
Dean Macpherson:
He’s the deputy minister in my department. If I didn’t have a good working relationship, that would be problematic. So, we speak to each other, we make sure that we’re headed in the right direction, and we ensure that the work that needs to be done is done, and that we both contribute to the team effort, which is Team South Africa.

00:19:05:12 – 00:19:11:13
Dean Macpherson:
So, that’s where we are, and I think we’re moving in the right direction together.

00:19:11:18 – 00:19:23:08
Bronwyn Nielsen:
Just a final question: in 60 days, we’re looking at the telecom towers investigation being initiated now, and we will regroup in 60 days to review the results of that investigation?

00:19:23:13 – 00:19:40:07
Dean Macpherson:
I will make sure that they are published, that every person has a copy of them. I have said that we are transparent, and we will make sure that everyone is able to see them and also know how we’re going to act on them.

00:19:40:09 – 00:19:47:15
Bronwyn Nielsen:
Mister Macpherson, thank you so much for your time. I know you’ve got a busy day ahead, and we really appreciate having you here on BizNews.

00:19:47:18 – 00:19:49:03
Dean Macpherson:
Thank you so much. Nice to see you.

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