De Beer: SA – The Good, the Bad & the Ugly…

In his latest weekly Sunday show with BizNews, Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM), talks about the looting that is being exposed by ministers in the Government of National Unity (GNU); and dissects the coalition battles on provincial and local level where, in some places, old foes of the African National Congress (ANC) – like ActionSA and the Freedom Front Plus – have shunned the Democratic Alliance (DA). De Beer also describes the “Rocky Horror Show” in former President Jacob Zuma’s MKP;  discusses the likelihood of MK becoming the official opposition in the next election; and warns that should VP Paul Mashatile become President, “you are going to see fireworks in this country and change to the horrific sight that you have never seen”. De Beer highlights successes in the fight against crime, but expresses concern about a “massive” manpower drain from SAPS, as well as rumoured “massive” exits from the military – especially of Special Forces operatives. “…if we’re losing these people, apparently to private contractors, to private security and apparently to political conclaves, we are in trouble.” In conclusion, he gives his take on Robert F Kennedy dropping out of the US Presidential race to endorse former President Donald Trump.

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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___

Chris Steyn (00:01.78)

It is Sunday and I’m meeting Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement for his weekly commentary on local, regional and international politics. Welcome, Neil.

NEIL DE BEER (00:16.224)

Chris, thank you very much. Lady in red. So again, 82 emails asking, are we dating? Are we going out and are we going to get married? Answer, no, I’m still trying to get over Helen. Chris, so yeah, interesting week. People asking me if we are going to get married. By the time that I marry everybody online, I’ll be retired. So very interesting emails,

Chris Steyn (00:37.034)

I know some people are telling me ‘We can hear wedding bells rin’. Well, well, well. Shall we keep them in suspense, Neil, and tell them on April Fool’s Day?

NEIL DE BEER (00:49.204)

yes, the first of April will set out our agenda. But let’s focus on the politics.

Chris Steyn (01:17.138)

Let us look at the looting that is being exposed by ministers in our Government of National Unity.

NEIL DE BEER (01:27.296)

So this is the phase. I said that the pre-nuptials were done. The marriage came. The GNU got into it. Rocky start. People looking at people. And like any other matter, they kept silent from each other. There was not a huge battle in the first three months of clashes between the ministers. I think they all towed the line we saw at the SONA. Our Sunday debate of that was clear. No one said anything bad and no one said anything good. 

But now, Chris, we’re into the after-wedding phase. I think the honeymoon is done. Now they’ve got to get into work. And what I’m seeing is three things appearing within the Government of National Unity. 

One, there was this continual accusation from Fikile Fix Nothing, having a fight directly with Helen, saying that she’s the de facto president. So that was the first battle line. 

The second one was saying that the ministers that are not ANC cabinet ministers are outshining the old ministers and current ministers of the ANC. That was the second rift that popped up.

And now the third one, and this is a very interesting one, just this week, the Honourable John Steenhuisen, now not just leader of the past opposition, but now cabinet Minister of Agriculture, declaring that he has already stumbled on a possible 500 million rand looting and corruption within that department. 

He’s not the first one though.  You could see that Leon Schreiber said that there were huge irregularities with staff and people that were absolutely criminal in Home Affairs. 

And then you’re sitting with another great Minister, Dean MacPherson, one of the most threatened people now in this country, has got a lot of weight on his shoulder, Chris, because he has declared war on the corruption, the Construction Mafia, and he is currently taking them head on.

NEIL DE BEER (03:50.898)

So this is something we need to look at. This is something I think is not going to end. I think this is going to build. The question will be the more that these members in the GNU are going to expose the corruption, the looting of their departments prior and current, how would the ANC scenario of the GNU take it? How will the President who is in charge of Cabinet take it? And will there be an exhaustive attack or attempt to silence them and to bring them back onto line? Or could that be the scenario that we wanted? A GNU which is a fact, a Government of National Unity in operation, but that checks and balances will always be put down by the opposing parties in the ANC and in the GNU so that we’ve got a balance of power, but that we’ve got absolutely zero tolerance on government looting and on corruption.

Chris Steyn (05:00.426)

Now this configuration has not translated to the provinces and the municipalities quite the way that it was foreseen, Neil. And some people are saying it’s because in certain Metros or, or municipalities, the ANC is holding on because it does not want looting to be discovered and exposed by a partner that’s going to hold it accountable the way you’ve just described it now, that’s happening at national level. 

Let’s look at Johannesburg, where the deal between ActionSA and the African National Congress has been sealed by the election of a Speaker, an ActionSA speaker, and from where Action SA could be heading for Tshwane oust the Democratic Alliance.

NEIL DE BEER (05:49.876)

I don’t think they’re heading there. I think they are there already. I think the big problem that you’ve got is, Chris call it as it is, on this Sunday interview we don’t keep back, we tell the truth. We don’t hogwash it and we don’t paint a better picture. The reality at this moment, and I see this every day because my eyes and ears are there, is that although the GNU on a national level are trying to keep the things together, you are so right, it has not filtered down to GPU, Government of Provincial Unity and definitely not on GLU, Government of Local Unity. So on the provincial level and on the municipal local government level, it is a freefall. 

And that’s why when we said, Ooh there’s a Freedom Front problem facing the DA, Big Brother problem and that the Freedom Front has moved away and said, ‘We will now do deals with whoever we want to, like Gayton McKenzie, who said that if the AWB was still alive – well they are, he just needs to go find them – that he would do a deal with them. So now you had that outspokenness from Gayton saying that they will go and partner with anybody as long as they get power. Well, it seems those that were anti that are now conforming to the same ideology. It doesn’t matter who you form government with as long as you are then in power. The hope, Chris, is you are doing all of this to benefit the citizens and not yourself – and I’m sorry 80% of what I’m seeing is to benefit them. So Freedom Front said to the DA you are no longer going to be this so-called big brother; we’ll go with the ANC. They did this in Oudtshoorn; it then exploded in Agulhas, it’s going into Langeberg and they are now saying whoa – and we called it last week Sunday, Chris, we said If Pieter Groeneveld and John Steenhuisen do not get together on a national level and put in the stick of peace within this river that’s going to overflow and say Thou shalt not pass, then you’re going to have a disruption on all levels. I now notice that they did and that they are. That the two leaders, who by the way are cabinet colleagues in the GNU, that they are speaking.

NEIL DE BEER (08:14.952)

And I’m saying that is not for the worst. Because we need a stable government. Yes, we need a stable government. So the question is, the interesting question is going to be, will Corné Mulder, will Dr. Mulder actually then say, I’ll back off? Because remember, Corne Mulder is the the Chief Whip of the Freedom Front Plus and he’s the leader of the Freedom Front Plus in the Western Cape…a very powerful constituency, a very huge constituency.

NEIL DE BEER (08:43.922)

So the question will be, what if he says no? Because I know there were previous disagreements within the Freedom Front Plus on matters, for example, Cape Exit, where the leadership, I know that, were not all on the same page. So on this matter, will Pieter Groenewald, who is a very sturdy, a very straightforward leader, will he be able to ask the rest of the party to toe the line?

So on the other side of the DA to calm down this pack of wolves because at the end of the day It seems they’re all hunting the same target, but because they’re biting each other ,the deer is getting away.

And now into the new player Herman Mashaba, ActionSA. Now, Chris, you will know they did not – no matter what anybody says, and I say this with respect because I work with Herman and very much Michael Beaumont – they did not get what they expected. They were expecting a higher target. You could see their disappointment. But what you can’t do is wish ActionSA away in Gauteng. It’s not going to happen. So when you go to local government level now, where you now have ActionSA that has a huge percentage within Johannesburg Metro, I think they just got up, they pulled their sword, they collaborated, and now they’re in power with the ANC and their collaborators. So you’ve got an ActionSA Speaker. And by the way, Chris, a Speaker in a chess game is like your King and your Queen. So your King will remain the Mayor, but your Queen that can defend the King and move in every direction like that piece wants to, that’s the Speaker. So they took the Speaker, henceforth, they now run Joburg Council. 

And now we hear they’re going for Tshwane. And I’ve said this on this programme before, Chris, I wish at times that we could park party affiliation and look at certain professionals who are there to do the work and are capable. And I’ll say it again, I’ll say it a hundred times, I back Cilliers Brink. I don’t necessarily care what party he’s representing, but the individual in Tshwane has made and is making a difference. And it will be a shocking shame due to political rhetoric, due to political grandstanding, that we’re about to maybe lose a very significant individual.

Chris Steyn (11:20.522)

Well, much will be riding on Action SA’s participation there because the new mayor, the ANC mayor, has been called the most honest politician in South Africa by telling the residents not to expect much.

NEIL DE BEER (11:35.338)

Doesn’t exist. Those two words, honest politician, it’s like National Intelligence. Really? So there are a few. I’m one. I don’t care what money you offer, I don’t care what you put on the table. The citizen comes first. And at this current moment, yes, I do wish, I pray, that the majority of people that went into politics are going to be honourable and understand that they are servants. That’s why they are called public servants, is that they become servants again. You know, we are afraid, it seems, to be honest. 

You know, I was blessed to attend a church this morning, Chris, CRC in Cape Town. I went there to get a bit of inspiration. I think everybody in faith should get a little. But here was the message. Don’t be afraid to bring light. Now, light could be religion, but in my point it is. But in politics, we mustn’t fear the dark. The dark is here. We as the people in the light must take them on, but not to the detriment of the people we are supposed to serve. Citizens X. That’s it.

Chris Steyn (12:46.048)

Neil, talking about the dark and going from service delivery to the other major concern, crime. What would you describe as the good, the bad and the ugly in the police right now?

NEIL DE BEER (12:59.616)

Sounds like that movie and it is exactly like that. If it wasn’t a real threat, if crime in this country wasn’t a harsh reality, it would seem to be a movie and a thriller. This thriller has come down to our street.  Chris, the bad is the fact that we are apparently in the past three months having a massive brain drain, a massive equity drain and a massive manpower drain exiting the policing service.

NEIL DE BEER (13:29.158)

And apparently now, rumour is that within the Defense Force, in the military, specifically in our Special Forces units, in our Specialised Operating Unit, that we also have a massive exits. Now, 

Chris, when you look at specialised services, when you look at police officers and military officers, not the normal boots on the ground, very important to us, but the specialised people, your Task Force, your Special Force operators, your TRUs, your TRTs, your Strike Commando forces. When you train operators that are on that level, a Task Force member or a Special Force operator, when you train them, the amount of money that the government has to put in to create such a level specialised service operator is millions. It’s a lot of money. That’s just the funding. Not just taking into consideration the time, the year or the two years or three years to go through selection, through your training and then for actual operational level of expertise. 

Chris, we’re losing them apparently. Now if we’re losing these people, apparently to private contractors, to private security and apparently to political conclaves, we are in trouble. Because no matter what you do, to take a constable and to make him a Task Force member, to take an infantry soldier and to make him a Special Force operator, you can do what you want. You cannot train them in a year. It takes more than that in their cycle. If we are losing 5 or 10 or 25 of them, then we’re not just losing a special operator, but we are actually killing a unit. So that is the bad. 

The ugly is again this week, KZN, funny enough, a stand-off between SAPS and criminals.

NEIL DE BEER (15:54.162)

And when the gunfight was done and the bodies were on the ground, there were police officers amongst the criminals. Now people are going to say, but Neil, that’s not new. No, it’s not. But in the past, we didn’t see this. In the past, they were in the background. In the past, they were corrupt. They were faceless. They are now standing up against their own colleagues. And this is a worrying thing and therefore I classify it as ugly. That’s the ugly side. 

And Chris, maybe the good side is that there are more arrests. I see more and more actions by the Hawks, by the way. Every week, I see the Hawks are going in. They are striking everywhere and they are focused on something I wanted them to focus a long time ago: The corruption at municipal level. The people that are there supposed to be on the ground giving us water, electricity, cut our lawns and making sure we’ve got no potholes.

NEIL DE BEER (16:52.672)

Those were the people that were murdering us capital-wise and service-wise. En ek sien hulle gaan nou tronk to. So good on the Hakws. 

I see Minister Mchunu is not stopping. 

And the good thing is, I hear there’s a call to maybe bring back our old detectives. Now, this is good news. There’s nothing great than a more than 50-year-old man who left frustrated, who still has the knowledge, and now you’re asking him to come back and to fulfill his dream. Let me tell you, if 50 of these old Murder and Robbery detectives are coming back, then them plus Pieter Groenewald, Julle gat op Julle hel kry. And I’m looking forward to that moment. So there is a bit of good. We have got people that are sitting at home. They might be grey, but they are not absolutely done up yet. So good on that call to ask that our old police officers, the ones that were the warrants, the old captains and majors, that they don’t sit at home, but that they come back for round number two. And I can’t wait if that happens because that will be the good within the policing scenario this week.

Chris Steyn (18:04.45)

Neil, before I take you abroad briefly, you’ve seen that 10 of the 18 MPs for the MKP party are challenging their dismissal, their sacking from Parliament to make way for the new MPs that Zuma is bringing in. Your thoughts on that?

NEIL DE BEER (18:29.152)

Yeah, call them what they are, criminals. And those that currently don’t have the orange overall, they should be there. You know, last week, more than 80,000 people agreed with us on the Most Wanted. The reaction when we named the names and then suddenly saw the announcements from Floyd Shivambu when he did his speech, now as a new National Coordinator, and we saw the people, Chris, it reads like a horror list of people that sucked our SOEs dry, murdered our institutions, looted, were named in the Zondo Commission – and now Zondo had his ba-bye party this week. He’s gone into the absolute abyss, but his commission and the charges do not go away. 

So now we sit here, MK is reading like a horror list. if you are a person that understands business, if you understand capital, if you understand institutions, crime, structure and the horror of three years of Zondo, they’re all there, unashamedly. 

And what they had to do was they had to make a position, a seat open and there are these poor ten guys and women absolutely enjoying their second 100,000 Rand paycheck from Parliament and suddenly get a letter to say but they resigned, their membership wasn’t renewed. I mean can you imagine sitting in Parliament, you’ve just taken out your new lease on your new black Range Rover; you’ve got to pay it off over 65 months. Investec or whatever bank looked at your pay slip and said Nee vyf jaar gaan jy werk en hulle is moer toe. They’re gone!

Let me quickly tell you, they sat at that Press Conference as if they were absolutely hit with a Bauer non-stick pan and they were more confused than what Jacob Zuma knew how to get out of Nkandla to jail. Let me quickly tell you, horrific! And now they’re fighting them saying, but our membership is there. Now, can you imagine those 10 being in Parliament and deciding about our budget? They can’t even decide if they’re in or out.

NEIL DE BEER (20:50.688)

So again, MK absolutely into leadership disarray – and making sure that their families are first. So watch that space, Chris. Fights are coming and this is not, I predicted here, this is not the first time that you are going to get a massive exchange of more MP parliamentarians before 2026. 

This is a Rocky Horror Show and, Chris, here’s my problem. No matter what we say, MK is the third biggest party in this country. And what would shock you is they got elected without any policies or manifesto. They went in because of the face of one man. And this should be shocking. This should be horrific. And we should not take this lightly.

Chris Steyn (21:40.083)

Well, there are people who believe that in the next election they could either be the official position, opposition, or be in a far stronger position than they are in even now.

NEIL DE BEER (21:55.328)

Chris, why is that a factual statement? I’ll tell you why your statement that you just made is absolutely up to 80-85% true. Here’s the fact. And if you’re not politically competent or wise, let me inform you because that’s why I’m here. The truth, nothing else. 

Cyril Ramaphosa’s career as a sitting president in the ANC is over at end of this term, if he makes it. What is a fact, Chris, is that the ANC conference is in two, three years from now. So Cyril can’t run again. No, this is a fact. So question, who’s going to become the new President of the ANC? Not the country. That’s 2029. But I’m forecasting if it’s Paul Mashatile that’s going to take over because he is the Vice President. Then you are going to see fireworks in this country and change to the horrific sight that you have never seen. 

Because Chris, here’s the fact. The DA took his dockets and had a Press Conference on the stairs of the Union Building before the election to expose Paul Mashatile. John Steenhuisen was the person that announced it that day. The criminal charges or the incoming criminal charges against him that should be done. They did it. They can’t take it back now. So then elections come, he’s still the Vice President and you’ve got Cabinet ministers sitting there looking at him, shaking the hand, nodding their head, but they just three months ago said he’s one of the biggest criminals in this country. What’s going on?

NEIL DE BEER (23:52.128)

And then there’s the talk that Paul Mashatile favours a more EFF, RET, MK scenario. He’s not come out and said it, but it’s true. So can you imagine, Chris, that Cyril goes, Mashatile gets elected as the new president of the ANC two years prior to 2029, and he decides MK is the new government. This is not impossible.

NEIL DE BEER (24:22.132)

This is not unrealistic. This is a reality. And that, no matter how you try and paint that zebra, it’s coming back black and white. And that is the harsh reality in this politics that we’ve got to watch out for. And that’s why I’m saying the battle for dark and light is a continual fight where the citizens must have their voices heard that all of us are gatvol. All of us had enough of corruption. It’s time that we have a stable country.

Chris Steyn (24:53.346)

Well, it’s not only in South Africa where politicians are playing musical chairs, Neil. Over in the United States, Robert F. Kennedy dropped out of the presidential race to endorse former president Jacob Zuma, and that has upset the Kennedy family greatly.

NEIL DE BEER (25:12.33)

You just said endorse Jacob Zuma. I think it’s on our mind. Looks like everybody’s endorsing. Everybody’s endorsing, but it’s okay. Jacob Zuma, Donald Trump, they can stand on a stage and bamboozle. I don’t think you’re wrong. I think if RFK had a choice, you would probably endorse him as well. But anyway, you are so right. Yeah, you are right. Yeah, it creeps into your mind.

NEIL DE BEER (25:43.072)

So, RFK Jr., the nephee of JFK, the son of Bobby Kennedy, gets up and says, I’m not going to partake anymore, I’m going to suspend my participation and I endorse him, Donald Trump. Now take into consideration his uncle, JFK, and then his dad, Bobby Kennedy, both assassinated, both died in trying to lead a country. Now you have Donald Trump in an attempted assassination and now you’ve got RFK Jr. getting up and supporting him. 

The knee-jerk reaction was that the total other side, more than three quarters of the Kennedy family, then immediately launched a press statement and said, that RFK does not speak for the Kennedys, that this is in actual fact embarrassing, and that they will not waver their support to Harris. So now you’ve got a break and a lineage break of one of the oldest political families within that country. 

You have a massive struggle in any case.  I think the last poll I saw was 83% Kamala Harris and 87% on a poll separately on, on Donald Trump. So it’s not that it’s not that far away on the support from each other. 

So yes, it’s this year, it’s November, and I think it’s heating up. And we should watch this. Because again, Chris, what has that got to do with us? What has that got to do with little South Africa? Well, it has a lot to do with us. Because America, no matter what your opinion, remains  the largest economic power in the world, although China contributes a fight, Russia, India commercially, but you still watch what America does. I mean, all of us still wake up in the morning and check the USD against the Rand. And that is how we emotively judge the country’s status is the fight against the dollar. It’s currently stable. It is stable because there is a lot of confidence, I think, in the GNU, no matter how we debate there is stability. But I think in November when it comes, you will remember Donald Trump, not a big fan of South Africa, Chris, didn’t recognise us and he has no, well, by the way, he had no foreign policy on anybody as far as he was existing, America was the world. So you’ve got to watch that trend and it’s going to be interesting. So in South Africa, we fight our wars and globally, those wars are continued.

Chris Steyn (28:35.54)

Indeed. Thank you. was Neil de Beer, the  President of the United Independent Movement, giving BizNews viewers his take on local, regional and international politics. Thank you, Neil. And I am Chris Steyn.

NEIL DE BEER (28:49.556)

Thank you.

Read also:

• De Beer: The “Most Wanted Poster” Politicians in SA
• De Beer: FF+ – The new “Big Brother”, Blood in “training camp” waters, Brutal uprising in the UK
• De Beer: Helen Zille’s plan for the GNU & SA’s “napping” intel services