ANC faces blackmail over Tshwane

ActionSA leader Herman Mashaba speaks to BizNews about the “dirty political environment” in which Tshwane Mayor Cilliers Brink of the Democratic Alliance was ousted. He says the DA leadership at national level has been doing “everything possible to even threaten” the African National Congress to do the deal with them in Tshwane. “…the DA is still trying everything in their books, including actually using blackmail…and…according to the ANC, they find this to really be totally unacceptable because when they formed the GNU, there were no discussions around municipalities.” Mashaba adds: “Perhaps they even still succeed because we’ve got 14 days to form a new government. If the ANC is going to concede to blackmail, it’s up to them.” Meanwhile, Mashaba is pushing for Deputy Mayor Dr. Nasiphi Moya to replace Brink. “All the credits that Cilliers Brink is seen to be doing, actually, it’s a result of our deputy mayor.” If everything goes according to plan, he does, however have this warning for the ANC: “You want to work with us, you work with us at your own risk if ever you want to continue corruption because no one is going to be protected from corruption, including ActionSA members.”

Sign up for your early morning brew of the BizNews Insider to keep you up to speed with the content that matters. The newsletter will land in your inbox at 5:30am weekdays. Register here.

Watch here

Listen here

Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___

Chris Steyn (00:02.116)
The most talked about politician in South Africa at the moment is Action is a Leader Mr. Herman Machaba. He is with us now. Good morning,

Herman Mashaba (00:07.917)
Well.

Herman Mashaba (00:13.112)
Good morning, Chris, and thank you so much for always giving us your platform to talk to your listeners and South African people in general.

Chris Steyn (00:25.392)
Sir, yesterday you were cheered by workers and residents when you left Tswane Council building after the ousting of Democratic Alliance Mayor Siliése Brunk. Did you have any doubt that the vote of no confidence in him would succeed?

Herman Mashaba (00:45.418)
Look, you know yesterday was and is an emotional, very deep emotional moment for me being really forced to take a very, very important decision. Why? I think it’s an emotional day for me. First of all, Chris, I’m relieved that I don’t have to watch my back any longer.

I don’t really have to be insulted directly and I’m allowing people to insult me and abuse me. So that is behind me. I’ve dealt with this once and for all. And doing this, when I took a decision to go into politics,

was to ensure that we can build a non -racial, equitable society where we can deal with ANC corruption, mal -administration. And really, in a build a new era where we don’t need to live side by side with poverty, because poverty, it’s a man -made phenomenon. It’s not something that happens naturally. It’s something that in our context in South Africa, it’s a man -made.

We’re with the capital. We’ve got open borders. Our women are raped left, right and center. The future of our youth is stolen by provision of education, allowing international drug cartels to come and destroy their lives. That is why I took a conscious position at the time that, Herman, if not you, who?

And I’ve then found myself in this dirty political environment. And I think why this is emotional and worrying for me is because I think if I look at general South African society, we are so biased, so biased in our thinking. Facts don’t matter.

Herman Mashaba (02:53.774)
What matters is what we believe in, whether right or wrong, that’s what we believe in. And I think it’s really something of concern and I hope and I trust I’m not going to give up and no one is going to sideline me because I think this life, 65 years, wasn’t shaped by anyone. This life was shaped by…

relationship my parents had in December of 1958 which brought life on the 26th of August. It wasn’t shaped by anyone else and this life has never allowed any amount of propaganda or cohesion or any manipulation to determine my thinking and my decision -making capacity.

So I think we will soldier on because as I’ve indicated to you many times in South Africans as to what triggered the final trigger that got me to really take this decision to cooperate with the ANC because if I did not have to cooperate with the ANC we were going to find a city without any government.

Chris Steyn (03:59.568)
you

Herman Mashaba (04:17.804)
But, and I was hoping up to Wednesday night that the ANC and the DA, because the DA leadership at national level has been doing everything possible to even threaten the ANC to do the deal with them in Soan.

Perhaps they even still succeed because we’ve got 14 days to form a new government. If ANC is going to consider to blackmail, it’s up to them. I think I’ve made it clear for us as Section SA, we went to an extent of saying if it means we must be in the opposition benches, we are happy to be in the opposition benches. But…

We cannot be in the same house with a partner that we know wants to kill us.

Chris Steyn (05:06.724)
Yes, as you said earlier, there will be consequences. Now I understand that Democratic Alliance leader John Stianizen once a meeting with President Sororam Apposa to ask for his direct intervention. Have you heard anything about that?

Herman Mashaba (05:23.062)
Well, I’ve heard it, including the ANC people yesterday at the provincial and Tawane region that the DA is still trying everything in their books, including actually using blackmail, you know, and which according to the ANC, they find this to really be totally unacceptable because when they formed the GNU, there was no discussions around

municipalities and DA all of a sudden they are the ones who brought this immediately after the formation of the GNU going to the ANC and using blackmail you know to operate with them in the three metros.

and with the removal of Action SA. Now, honestly, and I want to make it clear to those who want to really blame me, they’re most welcome. It’s their views. But as take serious exceptions for any South Africans, you expect the meal or Action SA as a political, independent political party, that we must wait for the DA to remove us.

even when we know we’re sitting with an enemy. So I think they are most welcome to keep their views and really respect me. I’m a 65 year old adult. I’m not a boy.

I’m able to really make my own decision and protect myself. I’ve got a God -given right. I have a constitutional right to defend myself. I cannot for anybody to expect me to listen, to wait for the DA to remove me and says no, don’t destabilize the government.

Herman Mashaba (07:12.984)
Who’s destabilizing the government? And I find it also really very weird. The noise that is made around Celia Brink when you, Chris, you are aware what happened in the city of Johannesburg under Mpopa Lati, a DA mayor, when us as Action SA and the Freedom Front Plus managed to convince PA to support us. Action SA willing to give

two of our three MMC positions so that we can keep the ANC out and allow the parts of the DA to continue. Where was this noise? And these are things that if South Africans are not really prepared to take into considerations when they come out with their views. Where saw South Africans 18 months ago when Celia Brink and the DA

decided to deliberately give us a NCEFF speaker in city of Tsuwane. The speaker who presided yesterday.

was put in by the DA. Supposed to have been in action as a, but we were live with that. We thought we’d said we’ll try to rule the court because DA was not prepared to assist us. Brain used to actually insult our counselors as to why are they so determined to remove this guy because he’s cooperating. And we find it really very strange that how do you as a mayor prepare to work with an ANC EFF speaker?

and your own partner who’s there supporting you, who put you into government. But there’s double standards that some South Africans are applying. Unfortunately, they don’t auger well. I think last night when I got home, I saw some of the images because Esa was leaving the council to come home. had other engagements. I was asked by my guys to say so.

Herman Mashaba (09:18.102)
the workers out there wants to come in just greet them. I was overwhelmed, was humbled by the reception I received because yes, it is about them, but it was about really protecting our dignity because when someone wants to destroy you and you protect yourself proactively, I think it’s about your dignity.

And I’m really quite humbled for people actually to see what’s happening on the ground that they ignore.

Chris Steyn (09:57.434)
So if everything goes according to plan and you are able to form a new government in Twanee, who will be mayor? Which party will take the mayoral position? The African National Congress or Action Essay?

Herman Mashaba (10:11.49)
Well, well, when ANC first approached me after at the time I was already aware about the national leadership, putting pressure on ANC national leadership, when ANC holding approached me, I then said, and I called them here in my house because I went from home. said, guys,

We prepared to cooperate with you. One thing that is going to happen, actually, is going to distance ourselves from Tsuwane. We’re not going to wait for your national leadership and DA to remove us. That decision we are going to take. are happy to work with you in holding your guru learning. We said in Tsuwane, in the meantime, can you help us remove the speaker?

voted in, you know, would you help us with that. But when we made this announcement, DA, instead of handling this in a respectful manner, I’m sure you’re aware, Chris, the amount of propaganda that they unleashed insulting me personally, calling me names and and traitor, basically, basically they were calling me a traitor.

And I’m happy to be called a traitor. can tell you, Chris, pre 1994 in the 80s, as a businessman in this country, I know the very same people who I was doing business with, the suppliers and so forth, because seeing me as a business person, they did not understand my views of my open support.

for sanctions against South Africa to bring down apartheid government. They thought something is wrong with me. I’m a businessman. How can I call for sanctions? They did not understand that I had millions of people, including myself, who was oppressed.

Herman Mashaba (12:18.634)
And I needed freedom. Freedom is not just really about having money. It’s about really having the freedom to really be able to talk to you like this, be able to live where I want to live and so forth. But I’m one person that believe very strongly in social justice. If one looks at the development of my business,

And I was really lucky to choose the right name that can help in giving people dignity without insulting anyone. So I think if people want to really know who I am, I’m a very strong believer in social justice. I’m a strong believer in social harmony. I started business, invited an African called Johan Kriel.

And I know the role that Johan Krill and I played while we making money until obviously decided to sell his shares in 1990, 1991, somewhere there. So as much as I believe in a non -racial society, and I do believe in that, but I believe in social justice. I don’t want to live in a country where…

millions of our people live in abject poverty when we have billionaires, millionaires, some of them corrupted politicians, corrupted to be what they are. So I’m going to fight them to make sure that they don’t continue the exploitation of our people and think it’s fine. No, it is not. And for those who don’t agree with me, it is their right, they’re fortunate enough.

with or without them, Hemen Mashaba will not really be destroyed, will never be destroyed by men.

Chris Steyn (14:15.816)
So as things stand now you have two metros with ANC and you are heading for a third. Do you have a timeline?

Herman Mashaba (14:23.594)
Actually, quickly let me answer that question that you asked. When NC approached me, I said to them from the beginning when we speak, talking about Tuan, I said to them, guys,

In turn, with all this insults I’m getting from the DA, what I’m proposing, guys, is that we’ve got a deputy mayor, very experienced, committed South African. All the credits that Celia Brink is is seen to be doing, actually, it’s a result of our deputy mayor. Fortunately, now, all the other parties recognize the role that Dr. Nasipi…

that Moir is playing. I suggested this to the ANC. And I think obviously at the time we were just really having a principle discussion. And ANC was comfortable with it, but we said we’ll get into the details of that. yeah, so whatever negotiations I’m going to have with the ANC, I’m pushing for Dr. Moir to really be the executive mayor.

unless they can give us someone better. That’s the only way I will compromise, if they give us someone better. But I’m not going to compromise on a lousy deployee, the KEDA. No, I will not negotiate on that.

Because I want all of us to succeed as a new government. I want the people of Toane to succeed. Toane is very important, like all other municipalities are important because all our people throughout the country, can be in Sissiu or Guamashu. Our people deserve better. And I said to the ANC guys, you know, running government, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist. You just need a political will.

Herman Mashaba (16:24.714)
You just need ethical leadership. Let’s stop corruption. Let’s all fight corruption. Because one thing that I think I made very, very clear to the ANC, that guys, if you want to work with me, please understand you’re doing this at your own risk. If you’re going to continue with your corruption.

One thing that you can be guaranteed, there’s a retail asset to them. Ask a DA why they don’t like me because they know I don’t cover anyone’s corruption. And at the same time, Chris, I don’t want anyone to cover for him and Masha ‘allah. You know, I remember when I joined the city of Johannesburg, they had

someone to be like a spin doctor for me. said, no, I don’t need a spin doctor for what? I don’t have anything to spin. I just need a communicator, to spin forward. Spin forward. I’m not in the game of spinning. I confront issues as they are. And if you don’t like me, that’s fine. I’m happy to live with you.

Herman Mashaba (17:31.384)
There are people today who are unhappy with with this decision, threatening to withdraw, whatever. Honestly, I respect that decision, but I expect them also to respect my decision that I’m capable of actually making their decision, whether they’re right or wrong. But at the end of the day, I must be given the latitude to really make the decision. And if they don’t like my decision, we live in a democratic dispensation.

People must decide for themselves. They must not decide for him and Masha ‘Allah. And I’m saying this with absolute humility.

Chris Steyn (18:09.321)
Just going back to Equiriledi, what are the plans there?

Herman Mashaba (18:15.606)
Well, don’t know, obviously, think ANC, have the majority with their partners. When we started the negotiations, they wanted us to include us in the Eku Rulene. And we said, are we happy to entertain? Let’s conclude Johannesburg first. Let’s do one municipality at a time. And I’m sure you know, we communicated this on numerous platforms, including this one. We let’s do Johannesburg once we finish Johannesburg.

to do Tsuwane and originally we were going to do Johannesburg, Ikurulene and Tsuwane last. But the attitude and the lies and the propaganda that the DA unleashed in misleading South Africans, they said no, let’s, after Johannesburg, let’s do Tsuwane because I’m not prepared to let these people.

continue with their lives because if I let their lives continue, it will become a reality. The sooner I deal with this matter, the better. Chris, one thing I’ve learned in life, when one faces danger, you don’t wait for danger to hurt you. No, what do you do? When you’re facing danger, go and kill that danger first.

I’m a very strong believer and I’m going to live by those standards. I’m not prepared to defend myself after being killed because I’ll be dead. If I see an imminent danger, I can tell you I’m going to strike first. I’m going to strike first and that’s exactly what I did because I was really facing a massive threat of DA wanting to destroy Action SA and I had to really deal with it and I had to deal with it.

decisively and those who don’t believe in how I manage things, must not make that problem my problem.

Chris Steyn (20:19.45)
So if everything goes ahead as you have just laid it out, what do you think will be the impact on the government of national unity?

Herman Mashaba (20:30.316)
Well, I cannot see why should this have any impact of national government of national unity because there isn’t any way in the government of national unity that prescribed how political parties must work at provincial and local government level. And that’s something that from what ANC people are telling me that they’re getting the

the DA to understand that, please, DA, please leave your arrogance out. There isn’t any way when you are negotiating with our national structures, there isn’t any way where the local government was involved. Why do you want to insist, actually even going to an extent of saying to the ANC that

let’s put together a government of national unity under Celia Brink. know, and that says, but DA, you’ve been governing the city of Tswane since 2016. Auditor General’s reports are there that actually Chris, I invite you and I invite anyone who’s interested in the truth to really look at governance in terms of Auditor General’s report.

ANC was without corruption, ANC corruption you cannot deny. In terms of the compliance with the laws and in provision of services, they were doing much better than the DA. The DA has been governing for eight years. They didn’t start now 18 months ago with Celia Brink. Now all of a sudden we told about this Celia Brink. Celia Brink is projected

like honestly the best mayor in the world or the world has ever seen actually, you know, and the man has only been in government for 18 months and the turnaround happened under the stewardship of our deputy mayor and action SA’s involvement including look at the manskara water crisis. If it was not because of action SA, this matter would still be kept under the carpet.

Herman Mashaba (22:53.804)
But we fought, we said to the DA whether we like it or not, this is a man’s carol matter, you’re going to deal with it. And fortunately enough, national government came out with the money because it was embarrassing for everyone. And actually, say we were determined, we are not going to sit back. And we also said to the DA, guys, we are not going to give into not pursuing justice.

for the 35 or so people who died. We want political accountability because you the DA gave Edwin Sordi this contract. You remember in 2022 or 2023 when we were governing with them wanting to bring a report to give a tender.

of two substations to the value of 26 billion rands already with their preferred supplier. And they wanted us to support that illegal report. And we said to the DA, guys, forget it. We’re not going to report. Please don’t bring this report to cancer. But because of their arrogance, you know what the DA did? Went to the ANC and the EFF. You can talk to the ANC and EFF leaders.

They went to them, convinced them to support them, and they said to us at Section SA, you can keep your vote, ANC and EFF is going to support us. We said, that’s fine. We never thought, honestly, that the DA will have such courage to bring that illegal report to council. They brought it to council.

Just before the deliberation, our guys actually called the ANC and EFF to say, guys, you support this report. You must know you are acting illegally. We will hold you with the DA accountable. Fortunately, love, some sense prevailed in the ANC and EFF. They refused to support this illegal unconstitutional report. And then…

Herman Mashaba (25:02.892)
Look at what happened, how the DA unleashed propaganda that Action SA is uncooperative. And Chris, I’m really proud of my team for having rejected that. If we are taken to really be uncooperative, we are not going to cooperate with anyone with corruption. And that is what we to the NC when they approached us that. You want to work with us.

You work with us at your own risk if ever you want to continue corruption because no one is going to be protected from corruption, including Action SA members.

Chris Steyn(25:44.048)
Thank you. That was Action SA leader Mr. Herman Meshaba speaking to BizNews after 20 mayor, Sylvia Brunk of the Democratic Alliance was ousted yesterday after a vote of no confidence. Thank you, sir. And I’m Christine.

Herman Mashaba (26:02.328)
Thank you.

Read also: