Makone Maja: Action SA’s Tshwane miscalculation

In this interview, a rising star among political analysts, IRR campaign manager Makone Maja, unpacks the latest developments in the ‘spectator sport’ that is SA politics. She reckons ActionSA’s leader Herman Mashaba’s approach reflects an inability to appreciate how tired Gauteng voters are of the governance instability wracking their Metros. She spoke to BizNews editor Alec Hogg.

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Highlights from the interview

In this interview, Alec Hogg speaks with Makone Maja, campaign manager at the Institute for Race Relations, about the impact of South Africa’s Government of National Unity (GNU) on the country’s economy, particularly the rand. Maja emphasizes the need for clear communication to South Africans, highlighting that the benefits of the GNU—such as lower fuel prices—can positively influence daily life by making goods and services more affordable.

Maja believes that the public, including those in Parliament, may not fully understand the positive impact of the GNU because it hasn’t been effectively communicated. She also suggests that some resistance to the GNU within the ANC may stem from vested interests. Maja points out that non-ANC GNU ministers have exposed corruption that was previously concealed, and this transparency has caused discomfort among those benefiting from self-serving practices. She attributes some of the opposition to these individuals, whose interests are now being challenged by good governance and accountability.

Maja further discusses the challenges in local governance, particularly in Gauteng, where frequent changes in leadership make accountability difficult. Overall, the interview highlights the importance of communicating economic and governance improvements in ways that resonate with ordinary South Africans.

Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___

00:00:07:02 – 00:00:38:03
Alec Hogg
I spoke last week with you, Frans Cronje. And we were suggesting that politics has become a spectator sport in South Africa. It’s full of interesting twists and turns. Today, we’ll be talking with Makone Maja, who’s the campaign manager at the Institute for Race Relations, South Africa’s premier think tank. She’ll be giving us her insights into the latest developments.

00:00:38:05 – 00:00:57:02
Alec Hogg
Makone, lovely to be talking with you. I know it’s the first time we’ve chatted, but I have to assure you that you come very, very highly recommended. A number of people in your industry say you are a rising star. So I’m glad that we’ve managed to latch on, or at least to have a conversation today.

00:00:57:07 – 00:01:05:13
Alec Hogg
What does your title mean? Campaign manager. I know the IRR has been around for 100 years or so, but what does a campaign manager do there?

00:01:05:15 – 00:01:25:13
Makone Maja
Hi, Alec. It’s so good to be here on this show. And while it is my first time on here, I have watched BizNews quite a lot, so I’m an avid subscriber. It’s a huge honor to be here and to have some of my heroes in this space champion for me to be on the show. Campaign manager at the Institute of Race Relations.

00:01:25:13 – 00:01:51:13
Makone Maja
Yes, the Institute has been around for over 100 years now. Essentially, we roll out campaigns in defense of South Africans and their liberties against government policies that threaten those freedoms. And that takes various formats. Recently, we have been opposing policies such as the National Health Insurance, formerly a bill, now an act, as it has been passed into law.

00:01:51:15 – 00:02:13:18
Makone Maja
Other work in this space includes opposing the expropriation bill and other racialized or ultra-racialized pieces of legislation and acts of Parliament. We have consistently opposed such policies throughout the Institute’s existence. So, I’m basically in charge of campaigning for these issues.

00:02:13:19 – 00:02:29:20
Alec Hogg
And the IRR has been against government, not just this government, which latecomers or newcomers to the scene might think, but against governments pretty much over the last 100 years. What is the north star of the organization?

00:02:29:22 – 00:02:57:09
Makone Maja
Yes, we’ve had to reinvent ourselves. You can imagine that race relations looked very different before 1994. The IRR has certainly been around for longer than democracy has been on our shores in South Africa. At present, our focus is really growth-oriented. We want to see growth in South Africa be more widespread and far more inclusive than it currently is.

00:02:57:11 – 00:03:28:22
Makone Maja
A lot of our work is geared towards economic growth, and we’ve released several publications this year in that direction. One of them is known as the Blueprint for Growth. It is our anchor report that outlines what steps the government can take to ensure that people who have been marginalized for far too long are finally included in South Africa’s growth trajectory, and what can be done to maximize some of the gains we’ve lost throughout the 2010s.

00:03:29:00 – 00:03:33:04
Alec Hogg
It’s an interesting direction the IRR is moving toward because, without growth, there’s nothing, right? Growth requires the empowerment of people. And empowerment isn’t just what politicians tell us, but more importantly, empowerment of ideas.

00:03:33:06 – 00:04:02:08
Alec Hogg
But let’s talk politics now because this is what’s bemusing— the story of what happened in Tshwane is well known. Cilliers Brink, the mayor, was ousted by a vote of 120 to 87. The latest emergence of news shows this is part of a much bigger play. You follow these things closely, so paint a picture for us of what exactly is going on, and why the vote ousting Cilliers Brink was so important.

Read more: Mmusi Maimane – The real threat to the GNU is how those outside Cyril’s executive understand it

00:04:02:10 – 00:04:29:13
Makone Maja
Yes, coalition country. We are well into the era of coalitions and the governance challenges that come with them. The metros have had their fair share of changing mayors as a result of coalitions and shifts in power. Specifically looking at Tshwane and the ousting of Cilliers Brink, there are various factors at play that led to ActionSA supporting a motion of no confidence against him.

00:04:29:15 – 00:04:59:02
Makone Maja
Initially, ActionSA’s position was that they wouldn’t sit by while maladministration and mismanagement of funds continued under Brink’s leadership, with ActionSA having a deputy mayor. This stance quickly evolved into the idea that the DA was simply waiting around to oust Brink themselves.

00:05:31:12 – 00:06:03:10
Makone Maja
Herman Mashaba’s words stab ActionSA in the back by going into a coalition with the ANC, which would essentially exclude ActionSA. It seems various reasons have been evolving, and ActionSA cited several justifications for their decision because, obviously, it wasn’t as well-received as they thought. That’s one of the reasons why the goalposts, in terms of the reasoning for their decision, have been shifting.

00:06:03:12 – 00:06:31:20
Makone Maja
So, yes, he has been removed. And I suppose the question now is, who will be the next mayor? Previously, an article by Mr. Herman Mashaba stipulated that they wouldn’t go into a coalition with the ANC blindly. But one must question what he meant by that, because there has been news recently about whether the ANC will field its own mayoral candidate instead of supporting ActionSA.

00:06:31:20 – 00:06:53:23
Makone Maja
This does indicate to me that there hasn’t actually been an arrangement between the two parties, ActionSA and the ANC, and that ActionSA didn’t determine their future in securing a deal with the ANC to say exactly what they wanted out of it, which is, of course, to secure the position of mayor.

00:06:54:01 – 00:07:09:02
Makone Maja
So the reasoning for ActionSA’s moves has been altering, I must say. It also seems that they have, in fact, gone into this deal with the ANC blindly, despite what they had previously said.

00:07:09:04 – 00:07:39:23
Alec Hogg
In one of the interviews that Chris Steyn did with Herman Mashaba, we suggested that it was a big risk he was taking, and he said there was no risk because if they weren’t part of the new government, he’d be happy to go into the opposition benches. But the whole situation seems so fluid, especially now that there is talk of taking the government of national unity down into the metros and even into the provinces.

00:07:40:01 – 00:07:43:04
Alec Hogg
How much credence do we give to that talk?

00:07:43:09 – 00:08:12:02
Makone Maja
I think it is incredibly consequential. Voters are particularly exhausted with how many times we’ve had to change mayors in the metros, where stability is generally important—especially in the economic hubs of the country, specifically in Gauteng. To speak flippantly about this, as Mr. Mashaba has, undermines the exhaustion felt by voters with these seemingly meaningless changes in mayoral candidates.

00:08:12:02 – 00:08:43:18
Makone Maja
I think it will matter certainly in the next local government election. Voters will be more careful about where they place their votes because they’ve seen how splintered votes can trigger instability in the cities, which definitely affects governance and service delivery. It’s something that needs to be considered with far more seriousness than ActionSA has demonstrated.

00:08:43:18 – 00:08:54:14
Alec Hogg
Talking yesterday with Mmusi Maimane, who, like yourself, is an independent in many ways—although he does have a political party, albeit a small one—he said he was pretty horrified by the way things have evolved in Tshwane. This also points to something bigger, and I think what many people are seeing is that the government of national unity seems to be working quite well.

00:08:54:16 – 00:09:25:14
Alec Hogg
Could that not be extended down to the provincial and even metro levels? What are the chances of that occurring?

00:09:25:16 – 00:10:15:19
Makone Maja
It’s definitely something to watch. I must say, I was initially skeptical of the government of national unity’s success for obvious reasons. There are underlying ideological differences between at least two of the biggest parties within the GNU—namely, the ANC and the DA. However, I’ve recently begun to see how well members of the cabinet within the GNU have been able to work together and get things done. Early on, much of the conflict seemed to stem from the political parties themselves, vying for power and drawing attention away from the actual work being done. But now, we’re seeing a distinction, where the work of the cabinet is somewhat insulated from the political wrangling.

00:10:40:20 – 00:11:11:04
Makone Maja
That’s your general secretaries of the ANC, like Miss Helen Zille, the federal council’s chair of the DA. They distinguish their actions from the actions of those in the cabinet. So, I think the people negotiating on behalf of the government and those doing the work on the ground, the members of the cabinet, it’s up to them to determine the success of the provincial unity governments.

00:11:11:06 – 00:11:46:14
Makone Maja
Now, I’m also in favor of autonomy. I don’t think that all provinces should necessarily walk in lockstep with the GNU. If provinces find that coalitions beyond the GNU serve their interests, they should definitely pursue that. But it must be said that despite the media focus and talk about like-minded parties—like ActionSA, the ANC, the EFF, and the MK—the rhetoric often doesn’t lead to follow-through. We’ve seen breakdowns in working relations in cities like Ekurhuleni between the ANC and these so-called like-minded parties, particularly the EFF.

00:11:46:19 – 00:12:32:12
Makone Maja
We’ve heard the South African Communist Party discuss this, saying the ANC should align itself with like-minded parties. However, that rhetoric hasn’t translated into action. There have been repeated breakdowns in the working relationship between the ANC and the EFF, especially in Ekurhuleni. The Daily Maverick even reported on two reports—one submitted to the ANC’s NEC by David Makhura, and the other commissioned by the ANC’s National Working Committee—that both indicate the EFF uses coalitions with the ANC to strengthen itself, and that ANC defectors are likely to join these like-minded parties.

00:12:32:13 – 00:13:00:18
Makone Maja
Both reports showed that the EFF uses coalitions with the ANC to their advantage. ANC defectors often move to these like-minded parties, placing the ANC in a difficult position. While it may seem logical to partner with ideologically similar parties, these alliances have cost the ANC members and constituencies. So, the ANC is caught between a rock and a hard place—working with like-minded parties, but at the cost of losing its own support base.

00:13:00:20 – 00:13:42:04
Makone Maja
There’s also a persistent dilemma in the media, with the ANC being confronted by opponents of its collaboration with the DA. Ironically, the GNU seems to be strengthening the ANC’s position. I’d argue that the ANC will face tough negotiations, particularly in Gauteng metros. While the rhetoric suggests they should be partnering with ideologically similar parties, these partnerships often lead to the loss of members to those same parties.

00:13:42:10 – 00:13:54:07
Alec Hogg
And the whole story of Lesufi, the Gauteng Premier, fighting with Ramaphosa—it’s been so well reported that there must be some truth to it.

00:13:54:09 – 00:14:16:12
Makone Maja
I agree. Lesufi has grown in popularity among ANC supporters. I’m sure some within the ANC are eyeing him for the presidency, as it’s common for ANC presidents to be recalled in their second term. Mr. Ramaphosa is now in his second term, so it’s only a matter of time if ANC history is anything to go by.

00:14:16:14 – 00:14:35:13
Makone Maja
I’m sure Lesufi is trying to build a name for himself. We saw how he approached negotiations for the Gauteng Provincial Unity (GPU) with the DA, which led to him forming a minority government. His bluff was called because he lowballed his offers to the DA, and they simply walked away, which he didn’t expect.

00:14:35:13 – 00:15:07:10
Makone Maja
Lesufi is attempting to gain influence by aligning with parties like the EFF and MK, despite there being little support for this within the ANC—especially from the ANC Veterans League. There are certainly factions within the ANC that don’t support this strategy. Ultimately, I believe that for the ANC to regain its strength, it needs to bolster itself internally and externally.

Read more: Brave bus boss takes on the taxi Mafia, the police – and the government

00:15:07:13 – 00:15:25:17
Makone Maja
However, tensions between Mr. Lesufi and President Ramaphosa will have to be managed. If the ANC is to recover from its current position and climb back up, the president will need to rein in Lesufi.

00:15:25:22 – 00:15:51:02
Alec Hogg
From an investor’s perspective, we’ve seen a strengthening of the rand, moving from nearly 20 to the dollar before the election to around 17 to the dollar now. That’s a significant shift. We’ve also seen South Africa’s bond rates, and thus its borrowing rates, improve dramatically, indicating better creditworthiness. So, the international community seems to favor the GNU.

00:15:51:02 – 00:16:11:08
Alec Hogg:
And they do believe it’s going to hold. But what is it going to take to convince locals that these people, who are prepared at last to perhaps put money into this country to help it develop, are acting based on rational fact?

00:16:11:08 – 00:16:33:18
Makone Maja:
Yeah. I think those messages are not being communicated to South Africans in a way that makes them relevant to their day-to-day lives. So, I think we, specifically in the media space and political analysis space, need to make a case for why the GNU has strengthened the rand and why that’s been in the best interests of South Africans.

00:16:34:00 – 00:16:57:08
Makone Maja:
One of the ways to illustrate this is through fuel prices, right? Fuel influences the prices of goods across the board. Delivery of goods does not take place without fuel, and delivery costs can drive up the prices of goods and services. So, South Africans need to see that if fuel prices are lower, their lives are improved because they get more value for their rand. Their rand goes further now than it did just months before the GNU.

00:16:57:08 – 00:17:20:11
Makone Maja:
I think it’s up to us in the media to speak to South Africans in a way they understand and connect to, with messages that address immediate needs they can relate to.

00:17:20:13 – 00:17:45:18
Alec Hogg:
But not just to the public in general—also to people in Parliament. We hear, again quoting Mmusi, that while the executive gets the GNU and loves it, not everyone in the ANC sitting in Parliament agrees. They don’t really see much benefit to them or elsewhere in the organization. So, I suppose communication is very important.

00:17:49:01 – 00:18:17:06
Makone Maja:
Yeah. I wonder how much of that is also due to the impact the GNU will have on people whose interests are not necessarily aligned with the best interests of South Africans. Right? We’ve seen how non-ANC GNU ministers have come in and exposed a lot of corruption that was previously concealed—corruption we would have never known about or dealt with.

00:18:17:08 – 00:18:42:10
Makone Maja:
So, a lot of those non-ANC ministers have brought sunlight and exposed much of the corruption happening within the government. Naturally, this has exposed certain people in Parliament, who I don’t think are acting in good faith when they show a lack of understanding about bonds, markets, and the rand.

00:18:42:10 – 00:19:09:10
Makone Maja:
I think it’s more nefarious than that. Their self-serving interests are now being thwarted by good governance, accountability, and the rule of law. The law is being applied equitably, and people are being held accountable for their actions, which they previously were not.

00:19:09:12 – 00:19:14:07
Alec Hogg:
At a provincial and perhaps metro level in Gauteng as well?

00:19:14:09 – 00:19:46:00
Makone Maja:
Yeah, that’s a difficult case because we’ve been changing mayors so frequently, it’s hard to keep anyone accountable. But I think we’ll have to wait and see what happens in 2024 because there’s also a chance that Cilliers Brink could be reinstated, though I think that’s very unlikely. Even there, you’re seeing incoming mayors from non-ANC parties having to deal with a lot of the previous administration’s corruption.

00:19:46:01 – 00:19:59:22
Makone Maja:
So, that has also been a problem for the ANC—allowing people outside the party to come in, investigate, and expose corruption that was previously hidden due to party lines.

00:20:00:00 – 00:20:09:00
Alec Hogg:
Fascinating. It is indeed a spectator sport. Makone Maja is campaign manager at the Institute for Race Relations, and I’m Alec Hogg from BizNews.com.

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