The DA negotiates like SA is a one-party state…

ActionSA leader Herman Mashaba has slammed the Democratic Alliance for “fear mongering” in its ongoing war of words over his party entering into a working relationship with the African National Congress in Joburg and ousting the DA Mayor from Tshwane with the support of the ANC. “The DA, unfortunately, the mistake that they’re making is to think that they are the only people who governs and they must govern on their own…They negotiate like we live in a one-party state and military rule.” Speaking to BizNews following the election of an ActionSA Mayor in Tshwane, he expresses determination to turn the capital city around. “And I think this time around, having the ANC, provincial and national behind this….This will make it much easier…we are going to take advantage of this relationship to build one United South Africa, provide services to all the residents…We will want the residents to hold us accountable.” As for working with the ANC, he says: “…I really hope that they’ve got a wake-up call because if not, if they thought they were punished with a recent election, if they don’t really turn around, they will be further punished.”

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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___

Chris Steyn (00:02.784)

Eight years of Democratic Alliance-led coalitions in the capital city, Tshwane, came to an end yesterday. The man behind that is the Leader of Action SA, Mr. Haeman Mashaba. Good morning, Sir.

Herman Mashaba (00:17.278)

Good morning Chris and always as I always say it’s a pleasure really having this discussion with you. I think your platform it’s really one of those platforms that’s helping to open the eyes of South Africans to the reality of what’s really happening. Given this opportunity it’s something that I personally appreciate from you and your team for what you do for our country and ensure that you’ve got a balanced view when, you know, political parties and individuals go on a campaign to really divide this nation, using fear to our nation. In the past, they used the violence to coerce people. Today, they’re using fear and forgetting that today we live in a democratic space, that every citizen has got a right to protect themselves within the constitutional framework of our country.

Herman Mashaba (01:13.318)

They operate as if I don’t have a defense. I’m telling you 1994 as a South African for the first time I voted and I attained my independence and this was confirmed in 1996 with the adoption of our Constitution. So playing games under this situation, we’ve got to really be very careful as South Africans to ensure that we don’t really fracture this new nation that we built in 1994. 

But it looks like political parties are there to really create a fear. And I think something for me it really gives me sleepless nights. It’s one of the reasons I got into politics. I did not obviously from outside realise how dirty politics can be. But fortunately enough, I’m not the kind of person that is scared of taking hard decisions. It’s been part and parcel of my ecosystem. I take decisions when it’s necessary. I don’t really fear. What I always believe is that, Herman, is this decision the right decision that you can stand up to at any time in time?

And that’s really what I’ve done to really protect ActionSA and find a way where we can begin the process again on really getting South Africans to accept one another and with all our past, with all our differences, but let us not allow a situation where politicians actually divide us along racial lines. And that’s something that really worries me. 

But I’m confident what we achieved yesterday in Tshwane, Action SA was not destroyed because the whole idea behind this project was to destroy ActionSA completely.

Herman Mashaba (03:14.608)

Why? with our under the impressed that would really be regarded as a partner because as you are aware, Chris, when I went into politics, when we formed ActionSA in 2021, I said we’ll never work with the ANC. And unfortunately then other people felt threatened by this or they thought they will take advantage of this. And it has happened as you are aware more than once.

I had to really act and fortunately enough I had the support of my colleagues in Senate. I can tell you when we went to the structures on the ground, I can tell you our structures were even against us taking two to three weeks with a review, we says we out, we have really been bruised for a long time, we’ve been abused for a long time and we’ve listened to you…But this is enough, but fortunate enough, I convinced them to say, guys, please give us the chance. I’m personally convinced that we are going to get out of this, but I think we need to really make sure that we have the evidence before we act.

Chris Steyn (04:30.87)

The person you wanted as mayor of Tshwane, Dr. Moya, was duly elected yesterday. You have great confidence in her…

Herman Mashaba (04:42.984)

Well, actually appropriate person, someone who has worked in the city as one of the executives from 2016 when DA took over. 

And I think, I want to remind your listeners and viewers that DA did not only take Tshwane in 2021. Actually in 2021, we pushed them into government. I just want people not to have short memories. DA has been running Tshwane since 2016. 

And fortunately enough, Dr. Moya has been part of the senior executive at the time as a member of the DA. When ActionSA was started, she was one of those who were gatvol with what was happening and joined ActionSA. And when obviously we negotiated to really have a deputy mayor because our MMCs were always sidelined, this was creating tension. Eventually we agreed on a deputy mayor and 18 months ago she served as a deputy mayor and her track record is impeccable. 

Really very committed person as much as I can guarantee to what other people will do in the future but I think I have full confidence that’s why when the ANC approached me, I was ready to say, if we do this transaction guys, I’m putting forward this young woman to actually be the mayor. And I gave them her profile. And fortunately enough, ANC people know her since 2016. And yeah, eventually two days ago, we all agreed because we gave the other parties, including the ANC themselves, because they’re the ones who are actually doing coordinating of all our meetings. We gave them the chance to present someone better than Dr. Moya.

Herman Mashaba (06:47.034)

And I’m glad on Tuesday evening, I met with ANC national leadership, provincial leadership, and Tshwane leadership. And we all agreed and supported by all the other parties to say, guys, within our groupings, there’s no better person to actually lead the city than Dr. Moya. And yeah, she was duly elected yesterday with an overwhelming majority.

Chris Steyn (07:12.216)

Now previously the African National Congress in Gauteng has been accused of going rogue, but in fact the ANC issued a statement affirming its support nationally for the coalition in Tshwane.

Herman Mashaba (07:28.636)

Well, I think the other was it last Friday, as I indicated, I had a meeting with the national leadership with the province and the region. And on Tuesday night, we met again with the senior leadership at national level to commit to the framework of how we must operate because Tshwane has got to succeed. There’s no doubt about that and it’s going to be under good hand. 

I think within the next day or so, she’s going to be announcing her mayoral committee. So every party has been given an opportunity to present the best people to really occupy those positions. We want by Monday morning at the latest, when council opens, there’s got to really be an executive team and a capable one that we all of us have undertaken to hold them accountable. 

We’ll have regular political meetings where we can obviously assist them and hold them accountable. To a large extent, it is about really guiding them, ensuring that where they have blind spots, we can open those issues up. 

We’ve got to deal with this cancer of corruption that has plagued our country in all spheres of government. I think people know me and they know ActionSA. When it comes to corruption, it’s the last thing that we will ever accept. 

But fortunately enough at local governments level, Chris.  Local government, it’s about the provision of services, not about the policies, you know, because I see we are being accused of working with other parties. But anyway, these are politics. It looks like some political parties have got a God-given right to work with everybody else except themselves. So when I work with ANC or I work with the EFF, I work with other parties, it’s a problem.

Herman Mashaba (09:32.532)

One thing they forget, ActionSA it’s completely totally different political party and this fear mongering that the DA is spewing it’s honestly it for nation building our country from a racial point of view we are still sitting, we still really vulnerable and but fortunately enough political parties like ActionSA are going to ensure that we open up South African peoples’ mind both black and white to understand the importance of cooperation and coexistence. Because we can’t separate ourselves. It’s just not really possible whether we like it or not. And we don’t, as ActionSA, want to separate South Africans. We want South Africans to be proud of our flag and be proud of being who God created them to be.

And that’s a role that we’re going to play. Whether our coalition partners don’t agree with it, fortunately enough, we’re working with them at local government level, where we are saying let’s go and give water, clean water to people of Hammanskraal. Let’s go and make sure that Atteridgeville people can live in squalor like this and so forth. Make sure that people of Waterkloof, Littleton and other areas, their infrastructure is working. The roads with no potholes, and build new infrastructure. That’s really what the local government is about. 

You can come out with your disastrous economic policies. Fortunately enough, they don’t apply at local government level. At local government level, it’s about how much money you’ve got and where to spend that money. You can come out with your ideological issues or your fear mongering. Ultimately, the local government is about service delivery. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with ideologies.

Chris Steyn (11:30.008)

Now the Democratic Alliance has accused you of entering into a dangerous pact with the African National Congress and the Economic Freedom Fighters, but when you were mayor of Johannesburg, did the EFF ever come to you and ask you for a tender?

Herman Mashaba (11:43.732)

In the three years I was the mayor of the city of Johannesburg, not a single time that any EFF person has ever come and asked me for a tender because I don’t work with the tenders even when I was the mayor, not once. And I was accused on many occasions, but ultimately the truth came out, including the previous Public Protector actually entering the space. But fortunately enough, I’ve been cleared by the High Courts in the land because I took those matters on review.

And I can tell you with Dr. Moya, that’s something that she knows me and to my determination to really fight corruption because if we’re not going to fight corruption, this country is not going to really move forward.

So what the DA is saying is just really fear mongering. The DA, unfortunately, the mistake that they’re making is to think that they are the only people who governs and they must govern on their own. If they want to govern, we live in a democratic country. Let them go out and get the support. I mean, how much money they’ve used the last two months to tarnish my name, tarnish other people’s names and our political parties. I don’t, you said to myself that how people negotiate. They negotiate like we live in a one-party state and military rule.

Herman Mashaba (13:30.91)

No, within a democratic environment where we have the right and our Constitution to protect ourselves. So yeah, well, I think they can say whatever they want to say, it is their right. Insulting us, including yesterday actually, saying that our mayor is going to just be a token mayor. Well, time will tell. 

So I don’t think it is really necessary sometimes respond to issues like this. One thing for sure I’ve learned in life is to listen to people but ultimately tell them about what they do. Give us, I am saying to residents of the city of Tshwane, give us the chance, just watch us very closely, hold us accountable and we are going to do everything possible to make sure that we turn that city around. 

And I think this time around, having the ANC, provincial and national behind this. This will make it much easier. Unlike when I was the mayor, you can imagine I had the ANC against me at the provincial and national level. So in this particular case, we are going to take advantage of this relationship to build one United South Africa, provide services to all the residents, the little budget that we’ve got.

We will want the residents to hold us accountable. In fact, I’ve requested while I was negotiating those before knowing that Dr. Moya will be accepted. I was really giving her the motivation and the guidance and I said, please, within the next week or so, if you are elected, please work with the city manager, take the city of Tshwane into confidence about the current state of the city so that when you are judged, you are judged on facts, not on the hype. So I hope she’s going to do that within the next week or so so that the people of Tshwane must hold accountable on facts, not on fear.

Herman Mashaba (15:47.656)

So yeah, think, and also what I’d advise her to do is that between now and the end of tenure is to ensure that on a monthly basis, she must have a press conference. That’s something I did very well when I was in Johannesburg, keeping the residents abreast. And I think the media really found that really very enriching because I always have a full house every month letting the residents of Johannesburg offer what was happening in the city, how many in terms of cases of corruption, progress we’re making with our budget, the inner-City rejuvenation. So on a monthly basis, I’m sure you remember, used to really have those press conferences. And all the time I’ll have a full house. And it really created that relationship between me and the residents. And I think Dr. Moya will follow the same pattern. 

In fact, at this time, we’ll even be stronger in the sense that we will only have the DA outside criticizing and getting the white electorate fear us. But the one thing for sure is that we really want to appeal to our fellow white South Africans. Please don’t fear us. We like you. We are all South African, committed South Africans. Let’s work together to really build this country. We know our history. Let us not allow our history to determine our future. 

And, us a ActionSA, we committed to save you. Some of us left our businesses with a serious cost. As you can imagine, the financial implications of this machine to me and my family. I don’t earn a salary from this. I refused to go to Parliament. I said, let’s send someone else. I don’t have to be a liability to this political party; there are lots of dynamics that I think being outside parliament would allow me to manage. And that’s really what I’m committed to do for my country. I think there’s a little contribution I can make. I’m not going to allow political parties to really divide us along racial lines.

Herman Mashaba (18:05.766)

I think I don’t want to really be punished one day because I sat back, I became an armchair critic. I want to really be the player in this game which can actually one day create a better future for future generations.

Chris Steyn (18:19.224)

Just back to Johannesburg, where you are in a working relationship with the African National Congress. You were in Soweto earlier this week, where there was a great tragedy again. How were you received there?

Very positive. I can imagine for someone like me who goes into an environment like this, already committed as my family to really help the families with some of their arrangements. So that visit was a costly one, but I had to really go and show my support because these are issues, remember, about these spaza shops operating in our communities and the type of food that we’re bringing into this country illegally. I’ve said this so many times about; at the time when I was the mayor, one of the senior health inspectors actually came to me to say, Mr Mayor, please, the national government is not helping. What these people are bringing to this country one day will have a health hazard. And I brought this to the attention of South Africans many times about what was happening. But obviously, and remember at the time I was called names and xenophobic and so forth. But because I knew I was doing the right thing, no one could actually disturb me. So I mean it’s tragic what has happened in Soweto and I think it’s something that…

Herman Mashaba (19:53.67)

I have to really engage the ANC at national level to ensure that we don’t actually allow this tragedies to happen. And I think because, you know, all six families, I visited each family separately, you know, going from one family to the other. What I told them is not only one child, of them, yes, for them, they see directly with the loss of their seven and eight year olds.

I’ve said, you know what, right now we’ve got international drugs syndicates who are destroying millions of our youth on a daily basis. And our government is aware about this. So we are sitting with a huge problem where the youth of this country are being dropped off their future by this illegal foreigners and international drug cartels and money laundering syndicates. 

These are things that honestly, now that I’m closer to the ANC, I really hope that they’ve got a wake-up call because if not, if they thought they were punished with a recent election, if they don’t really turn around, there will be further punished. And I think they know my views very strongly and I found it actually quite fascinating that they still regard me with, regard me highly. And these are people that I grew up with that, know them. For me to enter politics was to register my anger with them that you are not just really failing your organisation, you’re failing all of us South Africans.

So it looks like they’ve got a wake-up call, but only time will tell. I really hope that they can keep to the promises that we’ve made to each other around making sure that we get the city of Tshwane to work.

Herman Mashaba (21:51.824)

And yeah, and I actually have already indicated to them that we need to do something with Johannesburg and Ekurhuleni. This metros, it’s really very critical to get these three metros to work together because it’s one big city. 

So I think those don’t really be surprised when I start getting my hands dirty to say to the ANC and their coalition partners in Ekurhuleni and Johannesburg, let us actually do what is right and I think get these three metros to succeed because if we can get these metros to succeed, South Africa is going to succeed. And there’s just no reason why we should fail because, you know Chris, you don’t need, we’re not looking for rocket scientists to provide services. We just really need the political will. We have the skills in this country of all our people. We demonstrated this in Johannesburg. And that’s what Dr. Moya is going to do and her team. 

She will also, within the next 24 hours, announce a chief of staff. You will see the kind of person that we’ve recommended to her as our party. So the city manager is now processing that, you know,we  really as a party, compromise one of our senior staff members to go and work with here so that we provide real services. That’s all you need. We’re not looking for rocket scientists. We just need the political will to really make the lives of South Africans better.

Chris Steyn (23:34.378)

Thank you, sir. That was Mr. Herman Mashaba, the Leader of Action SA speaking to BizNews. And I’m Chris Steyn

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