Mashaba’s ultimatum to the ANC: ActionSA Speaker

ActionSA President Herman Mashaba is ready to walk away from a deal with the African National Congress (ANC) in the City of Johannesburg if his party does not get the Speaker’s position in the council. This after the ANC has so far failed to make an announcement following Sunday’s handshake deal. “…we are not going to be in a marriage of convenience… If they want to wait another month or so, they are the ones who are going to suffer. And we are not going to wait forever because if the City reaches a stage where it cannot really be turned around, we will not really participate…One thing for sure, I know that the voters of Johannesburg are going to punish them, punish them even further on what they’ve done in the previous elections.” Mashaba points out that ActionSA would not be able to hold the ANC accountable if it did not “take the Legislature”. However, should the ANC honour its undertaking, Mashaba shares a list of the programmes for immediate implementation. Meanwhile, giving an update on his party’s fight against illegal immigration, Mashaba vows: “…we’re not going to let the new Minister under this coalition arrangement to do what the ANC did over the last 30 years…open our borders.”

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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___

Chris Steyn (00:02.757)

The once glorious – but now decaying – City of Johannesburg has had eight mayors in the past couple of years. We speak to one of those, Mr. Herman Mashaba, who is also the President of ActionSA. Good morning, Sir.

Herman Mashaba (00:16.976)

Good morning, Chris. Always a pleasure talking to you.

Chris Steyn (00:21.337)

Sir, a new Mayor is set to be elected. What can you tell us, please?

Herman Mashaba (00:26.34)

Yes, obviously, according to the ANC, which we had a meeting with them on Sunday, where they proposed to have Dada Morero as their new mayor because obviously part of that discussion with them over the last month was that we are prepared to help and stabilise the City of Johannesburg and turn things around because we’ve tried in the past, the last two and a half years, other parties…we were not successful. 

So we said we’re fine but obviously, as I’m sure you’re aware, we as ActionSA, after our principal agreement with the ANC was that ActionSA will take the Legislature including obviously the the Speaker. So we’re waiting for them to really make that pronouncement about the Speaker; we are concerned about not hearing anything about ActionSA taking the Speaker’s position – and obviously if that is the case, look they’re most welcome, they’ve got the numbers on their own to have, to elect Dada Morero. We’ve approved him.

But obviously, if Action SA does not really get the Speaker’s position, we are not going to be in a marriage of convenience like what they did with Gwamanda, the party with three councillors. I mean, the Speaker of the City of Johannesburg is someone coming out with two councillors. Now tell me, how can you turn a city around with someone who does not have the mandate and the confidence of the residents?

We are in this arrangement with the ANC. We are going to be the second biggest party with 44 councillors. So we want to contribute to ensure that we turn around the City of Johannesburg. We are not here to play around, to be the heavy Speaker with someone coming from two party councillors. We don’t want to really be party tutors. So if obviously they feel they want to delay, then that’s fine.

Herman Mashaba (02:23.902)

We are not going to force ourselves on them. They are the ones who approached us. But if they are prepared to commit, as they committed to us on Sunday, that ActionSA will take the Speaker and the Speaker will be announced after the Mayor.

But, up to now, they just really quiet, not really wanting to come out with the pronouncement. That makes it really very difficult for us. So obviously we’re going to that council meeting tomorrow. If that is the case that they’re not by tomorrow pronounce that ActionSA is going to take the Speaker, we will just fold our arms. 

We’re not going to be against the appointment because they’ve got the numbers. And we are not going to field our own Mayor and we are not going to support any other party. So we will let Dada Morero continue, I mean, proceed to really be the Mayor. However, they’re going to have a challenge then in that city around with the Speaker who’s got no mandate from the residents with no experience of running anything. For us as ActionSA, we are not just really bringing in our numbers; we were bringing the experience and the commitment of accountability and doing the right thing. So I think we’ll wait for them.

Chris Steyn (03:48.223)

Now, if you don’t hear from them, if they basically renege on what they had agreed to on Sunday, where do you think the Speaker, which party do you think the Speaker is going to come from?

Herman Mashaba (03:59.416)

Well, looks like it will be right now that’s the Speaker of the City of Johannesburg is Margaret Arnolds with coming from a party there are only two councillors. So I mean, what type of games are we playing? The reason we…Remember Chris, we are the ones who came out with condition of the removal of Gwamanda.

Everybody else is just now all of a sudden climbing on the bandwagon. We made this pronouncement four months, I mean a month ago, in a press conference. Obviously everyone is claiming to be the ones responsible. We’re the ones who said to the ANC, please let us be serious. You can’t have Gwamanda as a Mayor. Give us someone we can work with, someone from the ANC. 

And they dilly-dallied. I mean honestly something that they should have delivered in a week. Obviously I don’t know and understand and I don’t want to understand the politics of the ANC. And now they are dilly-dallying with a Speaker position. If they want to wait another month or so, they are the ones who are going to suffer. And we are not going to wait forever because if the City reaches a stage where it cannot really be turned around, we will not really participate.

Chris Steyn (05:17.657)

Well, this must be very disappointing for you, Sir. When you first spoke to me about the deal, I wondered afterwards what ActionSA’s position would be if it found itself in this alliance, working relationship with the ANC, but the EFF was waiting in the wings and it could be marginalised when it suited the ANC.

Herman Mashaba (05:38.672)

Yeah, well, the thing is, you know, when the ANC approached us, it because of the instability of working with the EFF alone, with sometimes they come out with sometimes ridiculous demands and so forth. So having us was actually guaranteeing the residents for us. For us, the first point of call was to make sure that we can stabilise this municipality. We can’t just sit back and be in opposition when we have the numbers to save the municipality.

And we made it clear to the ANC why we wanted the Speaker’s position in the legislature so that we can hold them accountable. I said, guys, the only thing that can actually collapse this government is if any one of us wants to cover corruption, whether from ANC or from ActionSA or whatever party. That’s why it was important for us to hold the Legislature. Why they are now scared all of a sudden for us to hold the Legislature?

It is up to ANC to explain. But the one thing they must understand that if we are not going to take the Legislature, because we won’t be able to hold them accountable, we don’t want to be part of allowing corruption to happen in City of Johannesburg. So through the Legislature, we know we can directly and officially hold them accountable. If they don’t want that, then that’s fine. There’s nothing we can do. One thing for sure, I know that the voters of Johannesburg are going to punish them, punish them even further on what they’ve done in the previous elections.

Chris Steyn (07:09.593)

Now, if it does work out and ActionSA does get the Speaker’s position, what would that mean for turning the city around? To what extent could that affect it?

Herman Mashaba (07:19.29)

Very, very exciting because especially that we’ve had extensive discussions with them. We’ve agreed on immediate programmes. 

Firstly, corruption will be public enemy number one. No one is going to cover for anyone on corruption. We are going to immediately reintroduce the Inner City Rejuvenation Programme to invite the private sector to build affordable accommodation for our people and our students. Part of this private sector investment, we said 30% of the units must go to people paying plus minus just over a thousand rands a month, obviously with inflationary increases on a yearly basis. So that we’re not just building the City with the private sector for poor people, for rich people. We must build an inclusive City. So the Inner City Rejuvenation Programme, which I was running when I was the Mayor, we will immediately reintroduce.

We will immediately introduce a special unit within the police to ensure that we deal with this illegality that’s happening in our city in terms of by-laws, people operating everywhere, shops are being run by people who we don’t know who they are, how they came into this country…make sure that anyone running business in our City is registered with the South African Revenue Services. We are going to involve the Home Affairs to ensure that people are in South Africa illegally, are not here for nefarious reasons. 

We were going to immediately introduce a massive weekly cleaning programme because I can tell you the black townships, the black areas… if you look at the filth that is there, when people are not employed. I think I remember when I was the Mayor asking people to volunteer. South Africans are prepared to volunteer, but they need the government to lead that process. So they committed to run this project. 

We’re going to assist them in terms of revenue enhancement. I don’t know, Chris, when I was the Mayor, the first year getting everything ready…By the second year until I left, we were literally having record collections month by month.

Herman Mashaba (09:36.076)

But it didn’t happen because I went to church. It happened because I took a tough stance against the criminals. Anyone who doesn’t really pay, I don’t care who you are, you’re a big business, you’re ANC or you’re whoever, if you don’t really pay for the services, we switch you off. 

We made sure that we put in professional people. People are elected, are put on, appointed in the position on the basis of merit, not the political affiliation. Yes, you can have your political appointments in your political office, but the professional public service must be run on the basis of merit. And those are things that we’ve agreed that we can assist them personally from outside. And some of my team members who worked in my office, we are ready to work with them as partners to quickly turn this city around so that people can really see that it is possible.

Chris Steyn (10:38.585)

Sir, lastly, can you give us an update on your engagement with Home Affairs on illegal immigrants?

Herman Mashaba (10:45.806)

Well, as you are aware, we wrote to them on Monday. Up to today’s Thursday, we’ve not received any correspondence as such. Parliament is obviously, our members of Parliament are going back. Lerato Ngobeni, our Member of Parliament, will follow this matters up. But obviously, if the Home Office is not going to, I can tell you it’s going to be a daily thing.

The Minister, we’re not going to let the new Minister under this coalition arrangement to do what the ANC did over the last 30 years, open our borders. We will put and do pressure on a daily basis, operate, show South Africans that this coalition government is the same as the ANC continues. So we are going to put pressure. 

I’m sure you’re aware, last week I was in Hammanskraal. In two blocks in an hour, 23 houses hijacked, literally hijacked by this foreign nationals, turning them into businesses, building structures without following the city’s by-laws. These are issues that we’re going to follow up through the City of Tshwane. The next council sitting, you will see there’s going to be a big report demanding the City of Tshwane to go and do an audit of those 23 houses. And those 23 houses are the tip of an iceberg. But right now we’ve given them evidence of the houses with the addresses. They can see up to 30, 40, 50 people living in one property. They’ve built structures without applying to the municipality.

So, the municipality of Tshwane of which we the government, they’re going to, but you want to pass it through council so that whatever we do, we do it in a legal fashion. We also wrote to South African Revenue Services. I can tell you Mr. Kieswetter, we are going to put pressure on him.

Herman Mashaba (12:55.248)

He must tell South Africans why he’s allowing businesses to operate in this country without being registered to pay taxes like us law-biding South Africans.

Chris Steyn (13:06.479)

So with all the instability in Johannesburg continuing still, what words of hope do you have for the residents, many of whom are packing and moving down to the Cape?

Herman Mashaba (13:17.946)

Well, I think I can tell you people can move as much as they like to the Western Cape. Crime in South Africa is going to follow them. Inequality is going to continue. If we are serious, we’re patriots, we need to fix the entire country. And Johannesburg should be at the epicenter of driving the economic development of our country. 

Unfortunately, as you are aware, I tried for two and a half years, the DA doesn’t want to govern in Johannesburg. Actually, from the day when I was the Mayor, they collapsed my government and they collapsed the government under Mpho Phalatse.

We’ve tried with the Freedom Front Plus to engage them to work with us to say, guys, please vote with us on an issue-by-issue basis. They refused. 

So with the DA, we’ve forgotten about them. So they are history in our lives for now. So we can’t even engage them any longer. We will pursue this ANC. We hope that they might make an announcement before tomorrow’s council meeting. If not, we’ll wait for them. But we’re not going to wait forever.

Chris Steyn (14:28.335)

Thank you. That was Mr. Herman Mashaba, the President of ActionSA, giving BizNews an update on politics in City of Johannesburg. Thank you, Sir. I’m Chris Steyn

Herman Mashaba (14:39.28)

Thank you so much, Chris.

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